In this episode, Dr. Rena Malik, MD is joined by Dr. Ramani Durvasula to unravel the tangled relationship between narcissism and ...

how-to-spot-a-narcissist-in-the-bedroom-its-not-always-what-you-think-ft-dr-ramani

How to Spot a Narcissist in the Bedroom (it’s not always what you think!) ft. Dr. Ramani

in terms of in the bedroom are narcissis SS a certain way in the bedroom sex is a funny thing with them because it can actually be a very complicated fraught space in a relationship narcissistic people really do use sex as a place of control of domination of shaming like it's not the healthiest space but narcissistic people can also be very um attractive sexual partners and very skilled sexual partners because they want validation and admiration they want to be told you gave me the best orgasm ever or you're the best lover so they will often because remember narcissistic people are successful for a reason it's often because they're quite obsessive in their focus to get something right including sex and people with narcissistic personalities have been found to be more what we call reward sensitive they are sort of our dopamine group they love stuff that's high reward and quick reward so gambling and um alcohol and drugs and sens seeking shopping pornography exactly anything that's that quick hit and so sex is going to be no different that's going to be one more thing where you do it and it feels good so sex and narcissism they they like sex right the challenges narcissistic people are very very limited in their capacity for intimacy so some of the things we know is that sex addiction Define it as you wish is correlated with narcissism not all people with sex addiction are narcissistic but a decent chunk of are and in fact many narcissistic people will sort of commere sex addiction as the explanation for why they're chronically cheating on a spouse or chronically watching pornography but it's actually they don't meet the criteria they just it feels more acceptable than I'm really selfish and I don't care if I'm hurting your feelings kind of thing um there can be a lot of shaming around sexuality when it comes to narcissistic folks so narcissistic people like to hold the stopwatch for the relationship they control the timers and so they want things to move at a pace that works for them so when you first meet a narcissistic person and you say hey I love things to slow down sex is a great example of that where a person might say like I don't know that I'm ready to go sort of into this like this right and then what you might the kind of push back you might see is that the narcissistic person like oh I guess you really don't want a relationship or you know I guess what are you approved like you are you frigid they'll use words like that which shame the other person Gaslight the other person who's not those things at all but they just want to be sure and they want to feel emotionally safe and people will sort of feel it almost they feel compelled you know that they if I I like they'll say I like enough things about this person the sex thing got weird but maybe I am a prude so I'm going to go ahead and have sex with them and then it wouldn't be unusual nine months a year into a relationship where the narcissistic person might actually shame that person well you gave that up quickly you give it up quickly for everyone else so then they'll twist and weaponize that it is a they will they will often um try to coerce or manipulate or encourage I'm using a range of words coer of these extreme encourage or manipulate or pull a partner into sexual behaviors they may not be fully comfortable with then shame them for it later so it can really make it this very very confused place and narcissistic people may withhold sex as a way of punishing a partner you know may may person may feel like sex is a place of connection so a narcissistic person that's how they'll sort of exert their power by not showing up that way and the sex might be performative and it might be theatrical but it often doesn't feel connected it can often feel sort of like your um your the the the the sort of the oxytocin part of the sex tends to be missing right the cuddling the holding and all of that like that almost is sort of like you can imagine that sort of film Trope where the person sort of staring at the ceiling and counting down like how long do we have to do this for so that's sort of a a narcissistic kind of a a sort of please don't make me do this real genuine intimacy part I was really good with the other part of it and so it's it's not the healthiest space but because they care so much about sex they often many people will say I felt not only trauma bonded to this narcissistic person meaning like I felt like I couldn't get out of it and I kept justifying it the sex muddies the waters cuz some people will say the sex was the hard part to leave cuz it actually was it it felt good they really were so devoted to my climax my orgasm that um people thought they sort of locked into something and they don't want to leave it and so there it can confuse the relationship even more yeah that's uh that makes a lot of sense in terms of um what if that other partner who's like not the narcissist wants to pleasure themselves or use sex toys or watch pornography I imagine that the narcissist feels threatened by that is that typical I think that if a another partner was trying if if a partner came into a narcissist life and actually was suggesting more novelty might even be the one who is saying let's go let's do more interesting things my bet would be that the narcissistic person would try to shame that behavior because that's such a powerful tool of of manipulation I think it would also shame the narcissistic person who may come to the realization that their sexual repertoire isn't maybe as robust as this new partner there with and so that that sense of look you know I'm supposed to be all that I'm a I'm a interesting compelling whatever the heck I am that somebody else is coming in like this might also make them feel inadequate sexually inadequate as a partner and so that's going to be met with anger anytime the narcissistic person feels shame they tend to react with anger so if they felt for example like this person's always getting off with their sex toys so easily they might even feel threatened by that oh absolutely cuz what you know so why are you doing that that am I not good enough for you and what the narcissistic person will often do is especially if it's a if the other person in this case the sex toy person in the relationship actually likes the relationship well enough they haven't fully dug down into the layers of the narcissism but like it's a fine enough relationship um or you've invested a lot of time in the relationship or kids or all the other things that create the glue of a relationship that when that person when that narcissistic person might feel sort of um competitive with your sex toy as it were and the person with the sex toy might be insistent and say I this is part of my Sexual Health like I enjoy this this is not this is not instead of this is an addition to like it's just me enjoying my body the narcissistic person may very well threaten abandonment like I guess I'm not good enough I guess I'm not enough you you you and you know what you're you're kind of freak and they'll sort of shame it like one might shame a kink or something like that so they'll shame them you're weird you're freaky um and you know what this isn't for me now that person with the sex way that's not what the outcome they wanted they wanted their partner to perhaps join in this and and embrace this part of this person's sexuality so now that person the other person the sex toy using person is feeling like maybe I need to stop this um or I this is it worth blowing up this relationship over and so that can create a lot of confusion you'd have to be a very not only sex positive person but a self assured person to say okay then I'm picking my vibrator Over You by most people don't do that and people who do that they've got this thing figured out like nobody else and that's not most people because like I said the narcissism up down side side the way it always it's good it's bad there are things about these folks are attracted when we love someone we love someone I mean that's a whole philosophical conversation are people willing to blow up their relationship over a vibrator maybe in the early months sure but I don't think when someone's years in that's the norm yeah that's really challenging um because you know I I talk about it a lot I think using sex toys or having healthy masturbation practices is totally normal and acceptable and I do see people have issues with their Partners maybe participating whether it's female or male I don't want a gender specific because everyone does it um and I think it's a huge issue and sometimes it's uh it's definitely coming from a place of insecurity of feeling like I'm not enough for that person but um sort of realizing that there could be some narcissistic traits potenti in your partner that's that's challenging it could I mean and again I wouldn't say that for example if you have a partner who's nice all the time compassionate empathic respectful loving it's a healthy relationship out of the bedroom and it's only in the bedroom where this sort of I don't feel comfortable with the sex toys you you're masturbating and I don't know that I'm comfortable with that that's a different conversation you know what I'm saying and I find that to be unusual conversation that someone to be that agreeable in real life and not in this other space though if the person feels like it feels like you're masturbating more than we're having sex then that person may actually have a problem yeah so then that could be an issue too yeah well I think there's definitely a lot of insecurities in the bedroom because we're not talk we're not taught how to talk about sex at all right and um another thing that kids should learn about right um but I think in general we're not taught and so people have so many insecurities about themselves their bodies and they may you know this may be the only space where there that insecurity shows through so definitely don't don't label them as a narcissist but um but definitely something to work through because it's important that you feel secure in your body and be able to be vulnerable in sex which is what it is being vulnerable in the moment with your partner it is and being vulnerable with a narcissistic person will ultimately really harm you and I think that that's the challenge so what's happening outside of the bedroom like I said empathy compassion respect perspective of taking all the stuff that makes a healthy relationship that he listen are there relationships out there that are healthy in those ways and not the best in the bedroom yes they are I mean it's like just because everything's healthy there it doesn't mean things are healthy there I mean people have histories that are complicated and so it's a but I think it's a very different conversation when you're being vulnerable with a narcissistic person psychologically the harm can be such that people will say I don't know that I psychologically feel safe with this person I don't ever think it's a good idea idea for someone to have sex with someone they don't feel psychologically safe with yeah that's a recipe for a disaster

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